a425couple
2018-04-26 13:16:35 UTC
We love to laugh at 'The Book of Mormon.' What if it was 'The Book of
Koran?': Guest opinion
Updated Apr 19; Posted Apr 18
The Book of Mormon.
By Guest Columnist
By Allen Alley
I had the opportunity to attend the musical, "The Book of Mormon" in
Portland. On the surface, it was one of the most dynamic, entertaining,
hilarious, magnificently well-performed productions I have ever seen.
Watching the show, I joined the rest of a packed house and laughed,
cheered, applauded and even choked back a tear at times.
As the show progressed, and the cheers and applause grew louder with
every scene, I began to reflect more on what I was experiencing. I'm not
Mormon, but my family tree has extremely diverse ethnic and religious
roots spanning just about every major religion from Catholic and
Protestant to Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist and Bahai. This diversity in my
close family has made me inherently curious about, and generally
accepting of, people who don't share my ideas and philosophy.
I have known and worked with many Mormons. They are some of the most
kind, caring, honest and community-minded people I have known. In
politics, the Church of the Latter Day Saints members are beacons of
integrity, honesty and grace -- something that I find sorely missing in
politics today. An example of their grace was on the full-page ad on the
show's program that roasted their religion and beliefs. The LDS Church
ad simply said, "Our version is sliiiightly different. The musical is
entertaining. The book? It's life changing." That simple, sincere,
classy reply reinforces everything I have come to know about my Mormon
friends.
It got me thinking: How can I get others to take a moment to reflect and
think about our society and what we collectively condone, and what we
condemn. Through their raucous affirmation, the thousands of people
joining us at the Keller were condoning a clever, entertaining, bawdy
and very graphic roasting of some really nice people. So I thought, what
if we switched things around a bit? What if instead of roasting the
beliefs of a conservative, teetotalling, caffeine-free group of super
nice people, we were watching a play called, "The Koran."
What if the play had a catchy song that instead of repeating "f--- God"
over and over, it said "f--- Mohammed?" Or rather than a song about,
having my own planet in the latter life, it had a song about marrying 72
virgins in paradise? Would the audience reaction be uproarious peals of
laughter? Would there be nine Tony Awards and a Grammy?
I'm not advocating that we censor or ban "The Book of Mormon." But I am
asking, what if Muslims were roasted and belittled as mercilessly as the
Mormons? What if we roasted Buddhists for believing in reincarnation or
Hindus for believing cows are sacred? What would be the reaction of the
audience and the broader Portland community? I dare say, I don't think a
play called, "The Koran," which denigrated Muslims the way the "Book of
Mormon" disparages Mormons, would be embraced with sold out houses,
raucous laughter and thunderous applause.
What would be the reaction of our community? It is important for us to
reflect and consider this simple question. Because I believe we really
cannot claim to be an enlightened, inclusive society until we can
truthfully hold ourselves to the standard that, in both cases, our
reaction would be the same.
-- Allen Alley of Lake Oswego is former chairman of the Oregon
Republican Party and a former candidate for governor of Oregon.
Share your opinion
Submit your essay of 800 words or less on a highly topical issue or a
theme of particular relevance to the Pacific Northwest, Oregon and the
Portland area to ***@oregonian.com. Please include your email and
phone number for verification.
View Comments (271)
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2018/04/we_love_to_laugh_at_the_book_o.html
comments include:
follow
Chris Lightfoot
30 minutes ago
Most Mormons I know have a sense of humor. The same goes for Muslims but
there is a radical part of the Muslim religion that I am sure would
freak out. I'm guessing the FLDS would be just as upset though. So I
guess it's between raping young girls and people being killed.
EvidenceBased
7 hours ago
Unelectable Allen is back folks and he’s got a moral false equivalence
for you that you didn’t ask for. Of course the playwrights have actually
deprived muslims and made fun Islam. Mormons are part of the culture.
They will be caricatured and satirized along with the christians, jews,
hindus, budhists , atheists etc.
They are also not a monolith and probably have a varied reaction to the
play which is as American as it gets.
Danbar99
13 hours ago
Obviously it would not be accepted with how entrenched identity politics
have become in daily American life. Mormons are historically white so
it's fine to make fun of them. Muslims and Buddhists are historically
non-white and therefore immune from criticism.
follow
EvidenceBased
5 hours ago
Reply to @Danbar99: watch the play some day. They make fun of the
ridiculousness of religion, say believe in something, and then the
characters develop their own religion based on one missionary’s poor
understanding of mormonism. The pokes at mormons are pretty gentle.
Uganda didn’t get off so easy.
follow
Ladyfreethought
16 hours ago
"what if Muslims were roasted and belittled as mercilessly as the Mormons"
Oh, you poor Mormons. I noticed the author of this op-ed made no mention
of how Uganda and its culture was presented in this musical.
Mormons are so kind and caring that they spent $20 million of their own
money to prevent same-sex couples from getting married in California.
52% of Muslims-Americans support same-sex marriage and vote for
politicians that support the LGBT community.
Also, how do you think Muslims ... » more
follow
Edwin_Schrodinger_502
21 hours ago
We laugh at the Bible too. Consider "Life of Brian" or the Mel Brooks
movie about the history of the world in which he has hilarious sketches
about Moses and other aspects of the Jewish (and by extension,
Christian) religion. With regard to Hinduism and Buddhism, these are not
so much in the news in the US, so we don't as commonly think about them.
So what's the difference with Islam? Some would say that the main
difference is that Mormons, Jews, and Christians are unlikely to slit
your throat ... » more
follow
James
21 hours ago
Typically most of all that represents religion is so controversial.
Every one has their concept of God. And He is supposed to be ONE. The
Supreme being. But when you scout out religion...ten thousand different
God's are demonstrated by man's fallible mind. All arguing that their
belief's are the Truth. Humility found in people of religion can be
trained into their soul. But that does not offer anything worth while to
prove the Supreme God is in them. Mormon's, Baptist, Pentecostals,
Catholic's, ... » more
follow
John Locke
1 day ago
I doubt that the author knows Islam. for example
Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day,
nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His
Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of
the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing
submission, and feel themselves subdued." Islam forbids friendship with
non-Muslims, condones lying, and rejects "innovations" (Bid'ah) such as
democracy. The religion mandates ... » more
follow
Ainjill
1 day ago
All these comments make me laugh at how silly self indulgent, self
important and biased you all are. Such hypocrites and uneducated people
say such things.
follow
Chris Lightfoot
28 minutes ago
Reply to @ainjill: direct quotes from the Quran are self indulgent?
Don't fool yourself
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Timmay65
1 day ago
All religions deserve critical roasting. Yes, many Mormons are good
ethical people, it doesn't make their religion any less prone to
peaceful criticism. Scientology, Fake New Age, Islam, Christianity, they
all have been criticized at some point in time, sometimes violently.
Everything should always be questioned by independent people, especially
religion and politics. We should not allow the cults of the world to
brainwash us into believing in a particular magical book. Read, study,
and decide ... » more
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EightBitDad
17 hours ago
Reply to @A. Bundy: Wow aren't you the one to cast the first stone? What
makes you think that you are holy than thou and have any right to judge
other religions? You don't... Get off your high horse... Go take your
cynic attitude elsewhere.
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Chris Lightfoot
27 minutes ago
Reply to @EightBitDad: um this is a response to an article about a
specific topic. His attitude is more than welcome. What makes your
opinion any more valid.
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Bmbelko
2 days ago
You won't find a similar play, article, song, show, book, or movie about
Islam. Why not? You answer.
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Gobjf3
4 days ago
Thank you for acknowledging the mockery and bigotry in our so called
“diverse” city - Portland. Such hypocrites .....
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EightBitDad
17 hours ago
Reply to @A. Bundy: And you share the same last name as a serial killer.
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Chris Lightfoot
26 minutes ago
Reply to @EightBitDad: not a very strong point. When you grow as a
person other people's opinions won't hurt as much.
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Gobjf3
4 days ago
So so true!
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Rebecca
4 days ago
In college we were assigned to read a play with foul language that
disparaged the Mormon religion (a different play from the Book of
Mormon). As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
(Momon) I refused to complete the assignment which docked my grade a
full letter. The teacher did not understand my perspective as it was an
award winning play. To this day I am glad I refused, and also wonder if
it was a play bashing Muslim beliefs and I was Muslim, or a Jewish play
and I was ... » more
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Paully
4 days ago
As a Mormon, I am happy this is the extent of our recieving of criticism
and fun compared to our history of being persecuted, pulled from homes
in front of children, to be tarred, murdered, and raped. Not to mention
the eviction and theft of property with homes and businesses in Nauvoo
Illinois, which at its time was more populated than Chicago, by the hand
of Governor Boggs. Look up until how recent it was legal to kill a
Mormon in Illinois. US government turned its back on the Mormons pleas
... » more
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A. Bundy
updated 1 day ago
Reply to @Paully: That's the LDS Church narrative. The LDS were a huge
threat to democracy, trying to control voting, buying up property, and
the immigrants coming over to join up were causing much poverty and
theft. If you truly studied history, there were treasonous acts by the
Mormon militia, and a fresh US Constitution was having none of it.
You really need to read ALL of history, not just the part you've been
spoon-fed, probably your entire life.
Nobody cares about your "only true ... » more
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Larry Gibson
4 days ago
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and we
have besides the 10 commandments what we call the 13 Articles of Faith.
Number 11 says, We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God
according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the
same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. It is sad
when some people degrade religions or even degrade non-believers.
Myself, I applaud Mr. Alley for his article not because I am a Mormon
but ... » more
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A. Bundy
1 day ago
Reply to @Larry Gibson: Joseph Smith married 14 year olds behind his
wifes back...
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Nlasmom
5 days ago
It's funny, any other religion would probably cry out, protest in the
streets and act like little babies....and the producers would have to
publicly apologize....
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TheChrisDeJong
2 days ago
Reply to @nlasmom: "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you
are not allowed to criticize" - Voltaire
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5891jonathan
5 days ago
Oddly enough, the play was immensely popular in Utah, where it struck a
chord among Mormons. Explain that.
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Paully
4 days ago
Reply to @5891jonathan: It struck accord with Salt Lake City residents.
Salt Lake is densely populated with anti-Mormons that abhors the Mormon
church. I have yet to meet any ACTIVE Mormon that praises this play let
alone attends it.
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A. Bundy
1 day ago
Reply to @Paully: Joseph Smith married 14 year olds behind his wifes back...
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Ugman
5 days ago
Clearly this article needed to be written by a Democrat to be taken
seriously.
The haters out there proved the authors point. Double standard. You can
say what you want about someone if you don't like there religion.
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Chris Lightfoot
20 minutes ago
Reply to @Ugman: please explain why someone's political party has
anything to do with their religious tolerance?
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Historian 1441
6 days ago
When you compare the World's major Religions, you find that One of them
commits all of the suicide bombings. The same religion commits over 90%
of the World's "Honor Killings". They commit more Rapes than the rest of
the World combined while they own virtually all of the World's slaves.
And it ain't the Shintos...
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Jdmd8910
6 days ago
I am a bit befuddled... is Mr. Alley saying ALL Mormons are perfect, so
a play about Islam would have ALL Muslims up in arms? Pretty broad brush
he's painting with there.
As to tolerance, well that seems (IMO) to be related to then number of
people in the room... As I learned in Mississippi back in the day: The
best way to keep a Baptist from drinking your beer on a fishing trip is
to invite two of them.
And BTW... check out Monty Python's "Life of Brian"... it sort of slams
all Abrahamic ... » more
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Allen Alley
5 days ago
Reply to @jdmd8910: I am certainly not saying all Mormons are perfect.
Nor am I making a judgement about Muslims or how they would react. The
question is how would we react? How would the same audience react if the
play was about the Koran not The Book of Mormon? How would our Portland
community react if the play was about Muslims not Mormons?
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O'Brien
6 days ago
"what if Muslims were roasted and belittled as mercilessly as the Mormons?"
I dunno. Ask Salman Rushdie.
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Caeron
6 days ago
Apparently my comment pointing out Allen Alley is a straight white guy
who apparently missed what mormons have done to others and thr silliness
of all religions isn't respectful.
Which I guess exactly proves the point I was making. You aren't allowed
to say this about other religions like christianity because people like
the Oregonian will shut you up.
I guess respectfulness here is also a straight white man.
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Allen Alley
5 days ago
Reply to @caeron: I wrote this to have a dialogue. Not to draw a
conclusion nor to impugn anyone. Thanks for taking the time to participate.
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Ultrafido
6 days ago
What would happen? Well, it might end up getting bombed.
Sad fact of the matter is that that is true...especially if the play had
depictions of Muhammad or Allah. Plenty of examples of violence towards
such things, the Charlie Hebdo magazine in France is just one of them.
Sure, Mormons are singled out. It is a free country however, and almost
all parody (and even jokes) offend someone's sensibilities at one lever
or another.
And from what I understand, at least to an extent, the Mormon ... » more
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Ja
6 days ago
Didn't crooked hillary tell us that the benghazi attacks were over an
anti-islam video?
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Jdmd8910
6 days ago
Reply to @Ja: yeah, that was one of the red herrings being sold at the
time. Your point is what?
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Historian 1441
6 days ago
Reply to @Ja: The movie in question had FOUR hits and NONE in the ME yet
the Muslims were so outraged that they attacked an Embassy. The fact
that the Socialcrats thought that that was excusable conduct shows how
evil that the Hitlercrats have become.
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Michael Pitts-Campbell
6 days ago
And this article was written by someone too sane and sensible for the
Oregon Republican Party! BTW, Art Robinson is running for Congress again
— can anybody else remember Harold Stassen?
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FKASnarky-Os
6 days ago
While all religious dogma is all fairy tale ridiculous to begin with,
Mormonism far outpaces the typical religion crazy train.
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Paully
4 days ago
Reply to @jdmd8910: Where did you read about these murderings? I am
familiar with one massacre but not aware any others.
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A. Bundy
1 day ago
Reply to @jdmd8910: Joseph Smith married 14 year olds behind his wifes
back...
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Ironicisntit
6 days ago
There are two concepts unique to Islam among modern world religions:
martyrdom and jihad. So, you see, Islam is not really like every other
religion.
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Jdmd8910
6 days ago
Reply to @ironicisntit: Jim Jones. Branch Davidians. Get the picture?
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Historian 1441
6 days ago
Reply to @Cathy: If you go back enough Centuries you can find examples
of current muslim behavior in other Religions but then the other
religions matured and the slavery and mass Rape stopped. The Muslims
have gotten worse in the same time frame. Why do you support Women being
Raped and beaten? No estrogen rights in the ME...
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Hiered
updated 6 days ago
I'm Catholic and I'd love a musical comedy about the Church! And I would
hope it would be irreverent. I'd go in a second. What's wrong with
laughing at yourself first? Bring back Late Night Catechism.
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Paully
4 days ago
Reply to @Hiered: Someone very religious and believes their very own
life is a gift from God would struggle with having that perception you
talk of about their own Church when it was their Church in their eyes
and their personal faith that helped bridge a relationship with God.
Godly things are to be revered and not mocked regardless of religious
affiliation. This is something all Christians and Catholics are taught.
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Hiered
4 days ago
Reply to @Paully: Well, have you ever heard a Priest tell an off colored
joke? I have. As human beings, we should respect all religions but also
a lot of people feel it's ok to make fun of customs and quirks in all
religions, as do I.
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Johncrow
6 days ago
All types of magical thinking are fair game for satire and derision.
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SweetPea
6 days ago
If you don't want Jehovah's or other religions coming to your door just
tell them to take you off the list. They will leave you alone after
that. Worked for me.
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Cathy
updated 6 days ago
Reply to @PlainsmanX:
Egypt had that problem, too.
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Nobigots
6 days ago
Reply to @SweetPea: I had good luck getting rid of them by telling them
I was a Catholic. They almost ran off the porch. I only lived a few
blocks from a Kingdom Hall. They left me alone from that point on.
Koran?': Guest opinion
Updated Apr 19; Posted Apr 18
The Book of Mormon.
By Guest Columnist
By Allen Alley
I had the opportunity to attend the musical, "The Book of Mormon" in
Portland. On the surface, it was one of the most dynamic, entertaining,
hilarious, magnificently well-performed productions I have ever seen.
Watching the show, I joined the rest of a packed house and laughed,
cheered, applauded and even choked back a tear at times.
As the show progressed, and the cheers and applause grew louder with
every scene, I began to reflect more on what I was experiencing. I'm not
Mormon, but my family tree has extremely diverse ethnic and religious
roots spanning just about every major religion from Catholic and
Protestant to Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist and Bahai. This diversity in my
close family has made me inherently curious about, and generally
accepting of, people who don't share my ideas and philosophy.
I have known and worked with many Mormons. They are some of the most
kind, caring, honest and community-minded people I have known. In
politics, the Church of the Latter Day Saints members are beacons of
integrity, honesty and grace -- something that I find sorely missing in
politics today. An example of their grace was on the full-page ad on the
show's program that roasted their religion and beliefs. The LDS Church
ad simply said, "Our version is sliiiightly different. The musical is
entertaining. The book? It's life changing." That simple, sincere,
classy reply reinforces everything I have come to know about my Mormon
friends.
It got me thinking: How can I get others to take a moment to reflect and
think about our society and what we collectively condone, and what we
condemn. Through their raucous affirmation, the thousands of people
joining us at the Keller were condoning a clever, entertaining, bawdy
and very graphic roasting of some really nice people. So I thought, what
if we switched things around a bit? What if instead of roasting the
beliefs of a conservative, teetotalling, caffeine-free group of super
nice people, we were watching a play called, "The Koran."
What if the play had a catchy song that instead of repeating "f--- God"
over and over, it said "f--- Mohammed?" Or rather than a song about,
having my own planet in the latter life, it had a song about marrying 72
virgins in paradise? Would the audience reaction be uproarious peals of
laughter? Would there be nine Tony Awards and a Grammy?
I'm not advocating that we censor or ban "The Book of Mormon." But I am
asking, what if Muslims were roasted and belittled as mercilessly as the
Mormons? What if we roasted Buddhists for believing in reincarnation or
Hindus for believing cows are sacred? What would be the reaction of the
audience and the broader Portland community? I dare say, I don't think a
play called, "The Koran," which denigrated Muslims the way the "Book of
Mormon" disparages Mormons, would be embraced with sold out houses,
raucous laughter and thunderous applause.
What would be the reaction of our community? It is important for us to
reflect and consider this simple question. Because I believe we really
cannot claim to be an enlightened, inclusive society until we can
truthfully hold ourselves to the standard that, in both cases, our
reaction would be the same.
-- Allen Alley of Lake Oswego is former chairman of the Oregon
Republican Party and a former candidate for governor of Oregon.
Share your opinion
Submit your essay of 800 words or less on a highly topical issue or a
theme of particular relevance to the Pacific Northwest, Oregon and the
Portland area to ***@oregonian.com. Please include your email and
phone number for verification.
View Comments (271)
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2018/04/we_love_to_laugh_at_the_book_o.html
comments include:
follow
Chris Lightfoot
30 minutes ago
Most Mormons I know have a sense of humor. The same goes for Muslims but
there is a radical part of the Muslim religion that I am sure would
freak out. I'm guessing the FLDS would be just as upset though. So I
guess it's between raping young girls and people being killed.
EvidenceBased
7 hours ago
Unelectable Allen is back folks and he’s got a moral false equivalence
for you that you didn’t ask for. Of course the playwrights have actually
deprived muslims and made fun Islam. Mormons are part of the culture.
They will be caricatured and satirized along with the christians, jews,
hindus, budhists , atheists etc.
They are also not a monolith and probably have a varied reaction to the
play which is as American as it gets.
Danbar99
13 hours ago
Obviously it would not be accepted with how entrenched identity politics
have become in daily American life. Mormons are historically white so
it's fine to make fun of them. Muslims and Buddhists are historically
non-white and therefore immune from criticism.
follow
EvidenceBased
5 hours ago
Reply to @Danbar99: watch the play some day. They make fun of the
ridiculousness of religion, say believe in something, and then the
characters develop their own religion based on one missionary’s poor
understanding of mormonism. The pokes at mormons are pretty gentle.
Uganda didn’t get off so easy.
follow
Ladyfreethought
16 hours ago
"what if Muslims were roasted and belittled as mercilessly as the Mormons"
Oh, you poor Mormons. I noticed the author of this op-ed made no mention
of how Uganda and its culture was presented in this musical.
Mormons are so kind and caring that they spent $20 million of their own
money to prevent same-sex couples from getting married in California.
52% of Muslims-Americans support same-sex marriage and vote for
politicians that support the LGBT community.
Also, how do you think Muslims ... » more
follow
Edwin_Schrodinger_502
21 hours ago
We laugh at the Bible too. Consider "Life of Brian" or the Mel Brooks
movie about the history of the world in which he has hilarious sketches
about Moses and other aspects of the Jewish (and by extension,
Christian) religion. With regard to Hinduism and Buddhism, these are not
so much in the news in the US, so we don't as commonly think about them.
So what's the difference with Islam? Some would say that the main
difference is that Mormons, Jews, and Christians are unlikely to slit
your throat ... » more
follow
James
21 hours ago
Typically most of all that represents religion is so controversial.
Every one has their concept of God. And He is supposed to be ONE. The
Supreme being. But when you scout out religion...ten thousand different
God's are demonstrated by man's fallible mind. All arguing that their
belief's are the Truth. Humility found in people of religion can be
trained into their soul. But that does not offer anything worth while to
prove the Supreme God is in them. Mormon's, Baptist, Pentecostals,
Catholic's, ... » more
follow
John Locke
1 day ago
I doubt that the author knows Islam. for example
Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day,
nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His
Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of
the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing
submission, and feel themselves subdued." Islam forbids friendship with
non-Muslims, condones lying, and rejects "innovations" (Bid'ah) such as
democracy. The religion mandates ... » more
follow
Ainjill
1 day ago
All these comments make me laugh at how silly self indulgent, self
important and biased you all are. Such hypocrites and uneducated people
say such things.
follow
Chris Lightfoot
28 minutes ago
Reply to @ainjill: direct quotes from the Quran are self indulgent?
Don't fool yourself
follow
Timmay65
1 day ago
All religions deserve critical roasting. Yes, many Mormons are good
ethical people, it doesn't make their religion any less prone to
peaceful criticism. Scientology, Fake New Age, Islam, Christianity, they
all have been criticized at some point in time, sometimes violently.
Everything should always be questioned by independent people, especially
religion and politics. We should not allow the cults of the world to
brainwash us into believing in a particular magical book. Read, study,
and decide ... » more
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EightBitDad
17 hours ago
Reply to @A. Bundy: Wow aren't you the one to cast the first stone? What
makes you think that you are holy than thou and have any right to judge
other religions? You don't... Get off your high horse... Go take your
cynic attitude elsewhere.
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Chris Lightfoot
27 minutes ago
Reply to @EightBitDad: um this is a response to an article about a
specific topic. His attitude is more than welcome. What makes your
opinion any more valid.
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Bmbelko
2 days ago
You won't find a similar play, article, song, show, book, or movie about
Islam. Why not? You answer.
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Gobjf3
4 days ago
Thank you for acknowledging the mockery and bigotry in our so called
“diverse” city - Portland. Such hypocrites .....
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EightBitDad
17 hours ago
Reply to @A. Bundy: And you share the same last name as a serial killer.
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Chris Lightfoot
26 minutes ago
Reply to @EightBitDad: not a very strong point. When you grow as a
person other people's opinions won't hurt as much.
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Gobjf3
4 days ago
So so true!
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Rebecca
4 days ago
In college we were assigned to read a play with foul language that
disparaged the Mormon religion (a different play from the Book of
Mormon). As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
(Momon) I refused to complete the assignment which docked my grade a
full letter. The teacher did not understand my perspective as it was an
award winning play. To this day I am glad I refused, and also wonder if
it was a play bashing Muslim beliefs and I was Muslim, or a Jewish play
and I was ... » more
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Paully
4 days ago
As a Mormon, I am happy this is the extent of our recieving of criticism
and fun compared to our history of being persecuted, pulled from homes
in front of children, to be tarred, murdered, and raped. Not to mention
the eviction and theft of property with homes and businesses in Nauvoo
Illinois, which at its time was more populated than Chicago, by the hand
of Governor Boggs. Look up until how recent it was legal to kill a
Mormon in Illinois. US government turned its back on the Mormons pleas
... » more
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A. Bundy
updated 1 day ago
Reply to @Paully: That's the LDS Church narrative. The LDS were a huge
threat to democracy, trying to control voting, buying up property, and
the immigrants coming over to join up were causing much poverty and
theft. If you truly studied history, there were treasonous acts by the
Mormon militia, and a fresh US Constitution was having none of it.
You really need to read ALL of history, not just the part you've been
spoon-fed, probably your entire life.
Nobody cares about your "only true ... » more
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Larry Gibson
4 days ago
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and we
have besides the 10 commandments what we call the 13 Articles of Faith.
Number 11 says, We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God
according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the
same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. It is sad
when some people degrade religions or even degrade non-believers.
Myself, I applaud Mr. Alley for his article not because I am a Mormon
but ... » more
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A. Bundy
1 day ago
Reply to @Larry Gibson: Joseph Smith married 14 year olds behind his
wifes back...
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Nlasmom
5 days ago
It's funny, any other religion would probably cry out, protest in the
streets and act like little babies....and the producers would have to
publicly apologize....
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TheChrisDeJong
2 days ago
Reply to @nlasmom: "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you
are not allowed to criticize" - Voltaire
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5891jonathan
5 days ago
Oddly enough, the play was immensely popular in Utah, where it struck a
chord among Mormons. Explain that.
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Paully
4 days ago
Reply to @5891jonathan: It struck accord with Salt Lake City residents.
Salt Lake is densely populated with anti-Mormons that abhors the Mormon
church. I have yet to meet any ACTIVE Mormon that praises this play let
alone attends it.
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A. Bundy
1 day ago
Reply to @Paully: Joseph Smith married 14 year olds behind his wifes back...
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Ugman
5 days ago
Clearly this article needed to be written by a Democrat to be taken
seriously.
The haters out there proved the authors point. Double standard. You can
say what you want about someone if you don't like there religion.
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Chris Lightfoot
20 minutes ago
Reply to @Ugman: please explain why someone's political party has
anything to do with their religious tolerance?
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Historian 1441
6 days ago
When you compare the World's major Religions, you find that One of them
commits all of the suicide bombings. The same religion commits over 90%
of the World's "Honor Killings". They commit more Rapes than the rest of
the World combined while they own virtually all of the World's slaves.
And it ain't the Shintos...
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Jdmd8910
6 days ago
I am a bit befuddled... is Mr. Alley saying ALL Mormons are perfect, so
a play about Islam would have ALL Muslims up in arms? Pretty broad brush
he's painting with there.
As to tolerance, well that seems (IMO) to be related to then number of
people in the room... As I learned in Mississippi back in the day: The
best way to keep a Baptist from drinking your beer on a fishing trip is
to invite two of them.
And BTW... check out Monty Python's "Life of Brian"... it sort of slams
all Abrahamic ... » more
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Allen Alley
5 days ago
Reply to @jdmd8910: I am certainly not saying all Mormons are perfect.
Nor am I making a judgement about Muslims or how they would react. The
question is how would we react? How would the same audience react if the
play was about the Koran not The Book of Mormon? How would our Portland
community react if the play was about Muslims not Mormons?
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O'Brien
6 days ago
"what if Muslims were roasted and belittled as mercilessly as the Mormons?"
I dunno. Ask Salman Rushdie.
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Caeron
6 days ago
Apparently my comment pointing out Allen Alley is a straight white guy
who apparently missed what mormons have done to others and thr silliness
of all religions isn't respectful.
Which I guess exactly proves the point I was making. You aren't allowed
to say this about other religions like christianity because people like
the Oregonian will shut you up.
I guess respectfulness here is also a straight white man.
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Allen Alley
5 days ago
Reply to @caeron: I wrote this to have a dialogue. Not to draw a
conclusion nor to impugn anyone. Thanks for taking the time to participate.
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Ultrafido
6 days ago
What would happen? Well, it might end up getting bombed.
Sad fact of the matter is that that is true...especially if the play had
depictions of Muhammad or Allah. Plenty of examples of violence towards
such things, the Charlie Hebdo magazine in France is just one of them.
Sure, Mormons are singled out. It is a free country however, and almost
all parody (and even jokes) offend someone's sensibilities at one lever
or another.
And from what I understand, at least to an extent, the Mormon ... » more
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Ja
6 days ago
Didn't crooked hillary tell us that the benghazi attacks were over an
anti-islam video?
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Jdmd8910
6 days ago
Reply to @Ja: yeah, that was one of the red herrings being sold at the
time. Your point is what?
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Historian 1441
6 days ago
Reply to @Ja: The movie in question had FOUR hits and NONE in the ME yet
the Muslims were so outraged that they attacked an Embassy. The fact
that the Socialcrats thought that that was excusable conduct shows how
evil that the Hitlercrats have become.
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Michael Pitts-Campbell
6 days ago
And this article was written by someone too sane and sensible for the
Oregon Republican Party! BTW, Art Robinson is running for Congress again
— can anybody else remember Harold Stassen?
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FKASnarky-Os
6 days ago
While all religious dogma is all fairy tale ridiculous to begin with,
Mormonism far outpaces the typical religion crazy train.
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Paully
4 days ago
Reply to @jdmd8910: Where did you read about these murderings? I am
familiar with one massacre but not aware any others.
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A. Bundy
1 day ago
Reply to @jdmd8910: Joseph Smith married 14 year olds behind his wifes
back...
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Ironicisntit
6 days ago
There are two concepts unique to Islam among modern world religions:
martyrdom and jihad. So, you see, Islam is not really like every other
religion.
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Jdmd8910
6 days ago
Reply to @ironicisntit: Jim Jones. Branch Davidians. Get the picture?
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Historian 1441
6 days ago
Reply to @Cathy: If you go back enough Centuries you can find examples
of current muslim behavior in other Religions but then the other
religions matured and the slavery and mass Rape stopped. The Muslims
have gotten worse in the same time frame. Why do you support Women being
Raped and beaten? No estrogen rights in the ME...
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Hiered
updated 6 days ago
I'm Catholic and I'd love a musical comedy about the Church! And I would
hope it would be irreverent. I'd go in a second. What's wrong with
laughing at yourself first? Bring back Late Night Catechism.
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Paully
4 days ago
Reply to @Hiered: Someone very religious and believes their very own
life is a gift from God would struggle with having that perception you
talk of about their own Church when it was their Church in their eyes
and their personal faith that helped bridge a relationship with God.
Godly things are to be revered and not mocked regardless of religious
affiliation. This is something all Christians and Catholics are taught.
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Hiered
4 days ago
Reply to @Paully: Well, have you ever heard a Priest tell an off colored
joke? I have. As human beings, we should respect all religions but also
a lot of people feel it's ok to make fun of customs and quirks in all
religions, as do I.
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Johncrow
6 days ago
All types of magical thinking are fair game for satire and derision.
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SweetPea
6 days ago
If you don't want Jehovah's or other religions coming to your door just
tell them to take you off the list. They will leave you alone after
that. Worked for me.
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Cathy
updated 6 days ago
Reply to @PlainsmanX:
Egypt had that problem, too.
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Nobigots
6 days ago
Reply to @SweetPea: I had good luck getting rid of them by telling them
I was a Catholic. They almost ran off the porch. I only lived a few
blocks from a Kingdom Hall. They left me alone from that point on.